vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
143379-a-discussion-about-runes-and-content-accessability
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- to be fair it does seem to be spread out over the classes on which stats are the best to slot for. I am not sure which runes are not used. It doesn't seem like very many though as each class and spec goes for different stats. Even with the esper there was some discussion on multi hit vs vigor/crit sev. Strikethrough is pretty universal, armor pierce may be the least used but i am no speaking from any real experience on that one with my classes. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- From the AH :( (Or from salvaging glory gear in the case of raid level gear). Our guild is fortunate enough to be in the place that most of our GA gear is getting salvaged these days, so we earn rune frags from doing that. A full clear nets us about enough to craft 5 exceptional runes raid wide. That's across 20 people who each have 35 slots to fill. Weeeee! (But they did say they are changing this). | |} ---- And when we looked on the AH there were ZERO fragments. So that's not the answer for the general population. IMO, of course. And in case it was missed....I salvage everything on every single toon. (AKA I'm always broke) :D Edited October 15, 2015 by Khandi | |} ---- ---- Yeah, the supply side is a big issue. Especially once people start running out of tokens. | |} ---- ---- If I were "redesigning" this system and working with the proviso that I had to keep Runes here is what I would do: i) Pre level 50 no gear would have NOT Rune Slots - but Salvaging gear would give fragments etc. Yes, this would require a little bit of content rebalancing. ii) Once a player hits level 50 they are given a class appropriate set of Gear with Rune Slots (they can choose whether to go for DPS, Heals etc). iii) That "Tier 1 Set" forms the basis of all further rune slotted gear. iv) Content from level 50 onwards awards Tokens. You'd need X number of tokens to Rune a piece of Gear. v) Once a piece of gear is Runed it can be upgraded, for a set number of Tokens, to Tier 2, and then further Tokens are spent to upgrade the Runes. This gives the game designers the option to increase content difficulty by requiring a higher Tier # of gear, and so allow further expansion of Rune tiers as well. Each character would have Two Sets of gear, that they could upgrade together, or they could concentrate on their Primary set and only upgrade the Secondary afterwards. That way player can choose to tied to one role, or be more versatile, and whatever content they were doing the rewards from it would be meaningful to them. Have Tier 1 gear have one rune slot, Tier 2 two and Tier 3 three. This system would enable players to always be rewarded for their efforts, and to choose where they wanted to specialise. But above all this system would require the total abandonment of RNG in determining gear and runes. Rinse/Repeat content for gear progression is OK, its part of the genre; but it is a slap in the face to also have that gear progression reliant on RNG. And frankly RNG on key subsystems like gear itemisation is just lazy game / content design. All The Best Edited October 15, 2015 by RedneckRPGer | |} ---- So much this. While the old system was kinda creaky, you could reasonably get yourself reasonably geared for dungeons with about 7-10 plat at 50. I used to have four dungeon capable characters. I now have two and getting the 2nd geared up just broke my spirit again. What's worse is that Spellslinger was my PvP healer. And I'm just "meh" on redoing her PvP set now. I was hoping that I could get back to playing my Esper post D6 and "lol nope". Runing is now essential for endgame and it has become the next huge grindwall. Grind to get plat, grind to get fragments, grind to get class sets, grind to get tier unlocks. In the Drop 5 era I made plenty of plat by just playing the game. In the Drop 6 era with the insane cost increases* I'm barely treading water. * Apparently the promised cost reductions were 33-50% when they need to be 75-80% Edited October 15, 2015 by PlasmaJohn | |} ---- There is no armor pierce rune, or stat for the matter. Armor pierce come from the Striketrough stat. If your Striketrough deflect chance reduction is higher than the target chance to deflect, that Striketrough is converted into armor reduction. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I don't think my heart could take another reblancing of damage/content. :( But including default simple runes into gear would do a lot toward making this issue "go away" for non min/maxers As for as magic vs sci-fy, this game already has plenty of magic references. After all, "spell"slingers shoot magic bullets :) | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Let's hope so. I have 3x the number of superb set foci major I need to craft the runes I want, but I'm stuck either opening 5-6 800 prestige bags for enough GREEN superb frags to craft ONE rune, or I get to pay 45-60 gold PER frag on the cx. Purple more common than green; Carbino plz. Edited October 16, 2015 by Sixgun387 | |} ---- Well the truly terrible runecrafting UI doesn't help one bit with the issue of "perceived complexity". It is just plain horrible to use. But I feel there is genuine complexity (or over-complication too). Here's an example: So, I'm a Medic, I want to create a Set Rune. First I am confronted with a list of about 18 different sets, many with obscure names like Great Aegis or Cynosure (what's Moxie eh? LOL). There's no way to find out which of these sets is optimal for my preferred role and playstyle. So I have to open up every set, mouse over one of the runes and see what all the different Power tiers do. And there's a wall of information to try to remember, because I can't compare any sets side by side. So many sets, some have set bonuses, some don't. Which to choose? No way of deciding in-game, so it's off to a website guide if I can find one. Then I have to decide between level 80, 100 and 120 (why those particular levels? such meaningless numbers) and try to work out how the stats might change between the levels. Except that now the level 80, 100 and 120 buttons seem to grey out on some sets and I can't select them. Why? Nothing is explained about how some sets only operate at certain levels. I find myself hoping in and out of sets trying to see which buttons light up and which don't. Fun. So now I've decided what I want to craft, but realise I don't have all the components and need to visit a vendor or the AH. When I get back I find the Runecrafting window didn't remember what it was I doing so I have to start again and navigate all the menus once more. Now I need to decide what type of rune slot I need to craft for. Oh wait, looks like I don't have the right slots on my gear for the set I am interested in. So now I get to play the stupid RNG slot reroll game until I have the slots I need to continue. Yay, it seems I've now navigated this mess and have my gear with the right slots and the runes I wish to equip. I'm now told I have to drag the item from my inventory into a little square box. WHY? Is this another mini game? Such fun. Why is it impossible to code a UI that actually HELPS the player by providing a list of items they can rune. What a truly HORRIBLE experience. It's not just "perceived complexity", it's a mess. And yes I bugrepped all this on the PTR during beta. | |} ---- ---- I totally agree. | |} ---- If ui was helpful, we'll organized, allowed you to see what you can do to each piece of gear (afterall sets are per item now, much easier to achieve this!)... It would also be easier for newbies to see what is going on and go for some runes. Runes and elder game in general should be complex in the sense that you have different stat options open to you and your job is to pick the right ones for your gear level, skill level, build. Figure out if you've reached diminishing returns or if your build can take better advantage of multi hit or crit or vigor etc. Also determine if a set bonus is worth losing maximizing a certain stat etc. The system should not be complex in the sense of being unintuitive and flooding you with way too much information presented in the most convoluted way. The system has a terrible ui and is generally a headache to figure out what's good enough to start with. Having some sets at the expedition ilvl doesn't help either. It basically make it seem like you're supposed to aim for these sets even that early on. Requiring runes for leveling content is a big no no no hell no!!! The system is far too expensive for how often you change gear. If the current feedback I've seen stands and they tuned Mal grave onwards to require runes or even require runes for the normal dungeons... Just no. That gives more incentive not to do them and that's a crying shame. | |} ---- ---- I've highlighted the big fail with this runing iteration. I feel that the core system is an improvement in most ways but they took a giant step backwards in some very important aspects. The original rune system was pretty strict in the types of elements that could be used to fill in runes for set bonuses. Coupled with the inability to reroll the slots this significantly devalued gear drops due to RNG mostly crapping out poor slot types. They recognized that this was unworkable and introduced a way to reroll a slot AND broadened the elemental coverage. The designers of this iteration ignored or forgot that narrow useful elemental choices are a BadThing™ The far more important issue with the rune disaster are the class sets. Class sets should be a nice bonus not a dramatic improvement over the performance of the class. Because this is the case I cannot agree that runes "really only apply to min/max end game". They are now required by everybody hardcore and casual alike. | |} ---- Going to disagree on this point, at least the detail of it. Class sets are extremely nice. They are, however, not required, nor mandatory. They ARE nice improvements and we are working diligently to acquire them for all our raiders. However, we've been knocking out content with folks just in their regular rune sets quite nicely. I think on a power level, they're okay. They are worth paying attention to now, and I think that's a better position than not being worth paying attention to. The degree is maybe something debateable, but it's a very tricky line to hit, and if they're going to err, I'd rather they erred on the side where it's at least interesting. | |} ---- I'm a Stalker dps, our Assassin set brings us back to parity. Until then we are nerfed so hard that we're pretty much dead weight outside some interrupt utility. I'm the BT Stalker so my damage is going to stink anyway and why I haven't been rolling on the class sets. | |} ---- Depends on the class, doesn't it? I've read that stalkers suffer more than other classes for want of their class set. | |} ---- ---- ---- Basic in what sense? I think if you are stuck at High or lower runes, it's going to be a palpable effect. The Superb sets (and their associated bonuses) and beyond are fine. I think you're going to want to get as much item level 80 gear and slot them with Superbs to have the best time with raid content assuming you're not being carried through by well geared folks. | |} ---- ---- All runes can simply be destroyed after yesterday's patch :) | |} ---- Useful to know, thanks. This answers part of my question I'd asked in the help section, here. The other part of my question is whether there's any longer term implications for doing this, such as the cost of removing the runes later (I'm assuming the basic runes can simply be destroyed to free up the slot again?). | |} ----